Campaign Game

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Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:25 pm

Well I am taking the plunge. As this is the first time I have tried a CG, and since my playing experience is VERY low, mostly watching, I will be asking for help here.

First thing is my general thoughts. Kinda random. Please comment.

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The areas is fought over from July 12 to July 15. This could lead to the following CG scenarios: July 12 afternoon, July 12 night, July 13 morning, July 13 afternoon, July 13 night, July 14, morning, July 14 afternoon. Seven GC Scenarios.

July 12 night I could probably omit. July 12 Afternoon would be limited to entry at La Petite Ferme.

July 13 would be the Big day with pushes towards La Mare, the middle map and Le Carillion

July 14 would be morning pushes into the Maze south of La Mare, Point 89, and out of Le Carillion.

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Attack chits would be given to the 137th and 320th regiments separately. The 320th would only be given 2 attack chits as they really didn't attack much in this sector. The Le Carillion seizure and a push on the 14th to straighten the lines to the 137th. The 137th didn't attack at night so I wold think 5 attack chits are in order. The Germans would need a couple attack chits to allow some counterattacking. Maybe 3?

Part of me says omit the night scenarios as there was not any significant night attacks here. Part of me says leave the options open, perhaps taking a page from VotG where the attacker at night leaches CG purchase points from the following morning.

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The 137th attacked with three Companies of the 2nd Battalion, Easy, Fox and George. The 320th with 1st Batallion which would give access to Able, Baker, and Charlie Co's. Leaning on the 137th. E and G Co's attacked on the 13th. G was held up and severely threatened by a counterattack. F Co was thrown in to save G Co, and was mauled so badly it was taken off the line. The attacks on the 14th were by E and G Co's only.

How do I represent this in the CG? I suppose I could limit availability per Company in the purchasing schedule but that really doesn't represent the depletion and necessity to take Companies off the line. I may just have to settle on abstractions. and fiddle with entry zones.

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Easy Fox and George represent 9 platoons of 3 x squads. I could up this to 12 platoons if I think of them as larger 4 platoon Companies, or include How Company which is strangely not mentioned in any of the literature and Dog company for the 320th. KGP issues RGs in Platoons of 3 squads + 1 HS. I want to be able to attack in Co strength, but if I allow too many CPP the US can get 2 or 3 Co online in 2 CG dates. Not too bad as I will compensate this with the germans.

The Germans have 2 regiments. 1/897th and 2/897th, each with 4 Co. Infantry to infantry then we are having 8 German Co, facing 8 US co if I include Dog and How Companies to the US regiments.

Germans would have depletion to worry about. US would have random quality troops per platoon like in KGP. With depletion the Germans could keep the 8 co vs 6 co, allowing the US to have the full companies, although with variable qualities, while the Germans had potentially depleted but good quality companies. This could offset the defenders bonus and the interior communications of the Germans.

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Enough initial thoughts. I'll post more questions as they come to my head.
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 pm

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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:16 pm

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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:52 pm

Here are the charts with all the material that is available to the US and Germans. I am a little leery of that Meat chopper in the US G1 group. I have nothing that says it was used here, although it was attached to the 35th regiment as part of the 448th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion (Mobile). I may omit it.

The Purchase points and such for the Germans are preliminary. Was going to work on the US but was too brain fragged. I have no idea what the CPP per CG Date are so that is the next step. At least I have the basic RGs set up though.
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:20 am

The more I think of this campaign game the more excited I get with it's potential. One of the things that has been driving me nuts in the scenario play test is the monotony of the German positions. They are totally overwhelmed by firepower but have the potential to delay the US until time runs out. Now delaying actions are legitimate scenarios, but it get kind of old and demoralizing to the german to have to fall back fall back fall back then resist in the victory areas facing certain defeat but hoping you can hold out until the turn counter says you have won.

From what I have been reading, and by my repeated reading of the map as defender now, the potential for the Germans to counterattack is tremendous. How many times have I seen a US charge across the bocage get savaged and said to myself "Oh if I only had some more squads I could counterattack here through the DM brokies and totally rupture his flank. But I have never had the men to do so.

With the campaign game there should be the potential to do this. A few good purchase points, a screen of dummie reserves to feign strength somewhere while piling up at another location and with an attack chit you can be at the rear through that salient in the set up areas. This has me stoked.

Also, I know how to defend the map with a thin screen of troops. Give me a line with some meat on it so I can afford to stand against the high firepower troops piling on that bocage and we can rock. About time I can see this "Morale vs Firepower" battle I have been reading about rather than me going, "I don't have enough troops for this. Fall back to the next field."

Another thing I have been thinking of. If I buy FPP's as the defender, and after setting up the front line defenses, I leave 1 or 2 points free for rear setups, or just buy extra FPP for rear areas, think of the strong points that can be assembled. Foxholes to resist the US OBA, Wire and mine hedgehogs surrounding a couple infantry guns with breaches in the rear bocages so I can shift forces rapidly. Breach paths covered by MGs to again allow quick lateral movement. Thick minefields to close down parts of the map. Add this to the increased infantry and those tanks and US kill stacks wont be nearly as irresistible as I am used to.

Anyhow. Rambling on, I am pretty hopped up on the potential though.
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:37 am

Thinking of an SSR.

By this time the US had devised a very effective Breaching method for the Bocage. Rather than the Cullen devices, the tanks had two prongs welded to the front similar to a forklift. ( I believe they called them Rhino's) Working with engineers, they would drive the prongs into the bocage, and back out leaving two deep holes. The engineers would arrive and place spent artillery shell casings full of explosives into the deep holes, then set them off creating an instant, deep breach.

In game terms. At the beginning of the MpH, an engineer unit with a DC, stacked with a tank, can place a TI counter on the engineer and spend the tanks full movement to signify this type of placement. Barring a dud, the DC will create an automatic breach in the Advancing fire phase (Or whenever the DC usually goes off. NRBH).

This gives a definite breach, vs a probable breach for a set DC, at the expense of a tanks entire movement.

If I do this Should I make an M4 Rhino RG for purchase Using the cullen tanks. Make the Rhino an optional add on you roll for like a Gyrostabalizer? Or just assume all tanks can do this?

I am considering the RG's to have the Normal cost enter from off board, cost+1 settign up Reserve, and Cost +2 setting up front line system (Or however the cost broke down in KGP). This would keep that Engineer Platoon RG in service in the rear and those DC's would get proper historical use, so those Offboard RG's could make their way to the front quickly ratehr than being bogged on the 2+COT mf/ 1/2 MP+bog Bocage.

Thoughts?
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:44 am

Been reading on front lines and Setup areas.

I like the KGP system but think a slight modification should be made in the bocage.

Out in the open areas like North of Le Carillion the standard strategic locations/objective hexes and such will work unchanged. In the bocage though a switch similar to block control in ABtF would be necessary.

Think of each bocage field as a block.
A: If you have sole occupancy of the field, and the enemy has no LOS into the field, (Barring initial hex past the bocage hedgerow- IE would not be seen if not WA) the entire field is controlled and is a set up area.
B: If there are troops of both sides in the field it becomes no mans land and must be escaped to the nearest setup area.
C: If both sides have LOS into the field it is no mans land, even if occupied by one side.
D: If a field is unoccupied and none of the above critera make it no mans land, it is considered uncontrolled.
E: Strategic locations (Foxholes for example) remain in their owners control, although the field itself retains the above status. Strategic locations submit the 2 hex zone of influence in non bocage fields, but not into the fields themselves.

Take this diagram as an example. (The image is getting cut by the BB program for some reason. Click on an "Open in new window" to get the full picture. It is there.)
Image

Note that in L11 & M11 the squads are in fox holes so WA is not in effect. Therefore no LOS Exists. Also note the K15 woods cluster is not a bocage field so it doesn't fall under the above.

If a US squad was in N11, they would have to escape by case C.

I forgot to add an example of case E above, but lets say the german at )13 was in a foxhole. O13 would remain a strategic location under German control, but the rest of the field remains No mans land under case B. (However if the German squad was IN the foxhole Field F11 would be case D not case C and would be uncontrolled.) A Foxhole in K14 would not influence the adjacent bocage fields, but its 2 hex range as a strategic location, WOULD allow setup in the woods cluster as normal.

Due to the chance of getting lost I think shifting through Uncontrolled territory would be penalized by a positive modifier on the shift roll for each field crossed. Passing through fields with known breaches could eliminate this. The Germans would have a bonus for being familiar with the area also.

Thoughts?
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:59 am

Another thought for a german RG (US is not familiar enough with the area vs the Germans who know it so this would be a German only RG.

The RG would be called infiltration. Each purchase would allow 3 squad equivalent and stacked SMC and SW to be placed into a cloaking counter. At scenario start, the cloaking counter can spend 8 mf of movement to move after setup but before the attackers first turn. IF they are forced to loose cloaking from being in LOS, hitting mines and failing the MC or whatever other means removes cloaking/? counters, they are put on board in a stack and the movement stops. Restrictions would disallow advancing through no mans land or US controlled areas, although I may wave that as long as no LOS is seen. Troops placed in the RG would have to be taken from those on the board already, either through retainment or purchasing them to the front line. IE, no troops purchased as reserves or for off board entry.

This would allow some sneaky advances through holes in the enemy line and I thing would be consistent with the infiltration I have read about quite a bit in the books where Germans would sneak down the one open field not covered, and get through the lines to the rear.

Not certain if 8 mp is enough to make any headway. Although combined with an attack chit it could do wonders.

Thoughts?
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Keith Collins » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:49 pm

Dude,

Sorry for the lack of posting but real life, especially OT work has really cut down my avalible free time. It's about all I can do to make the monthly meets.

Regarding your CG. I'll try to make an effort to look over your post and such during August. I'm hampered on making effective comment by a lack of any historical knowledge on the fighting you are trying to simulate.

A generic piece of advice regarding a CG would be, put something in there that allows the defender at some point to really do something fun, such as a night counter attack or nasty ambush or a sudden death victory condition if they take a gamble. Basically something to releave the monotony of being a defensive punching bag.
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Re: Campaign Game

Postby Koz » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:45 pm

Thinking about the night turns.

Historically there were no night attacks here that I have read about. However the potential is there for a July 12 and July 13 night CG date. I am not familiar with the night rules. I have read Repitti's night example, but I have never played a night game, myself.

For those who have, how deep of an advantage will the US have on attack if I allow a night scenario? The Germans have enough trouble keeping the US at bay during the daylight. When you cut LOS due to NVR, how on earth will the Germans survive? I need to reread Repittis examples but I fear the US finding a hole, then penetrating half the map while the Germans are on no move counters.

Having said all this. If there is a Night attack, how would I handle it? I am thinking of these options. In the Valor of the Guards Russians can make night attacks, but they subtract from your purchase points the following morning. I just looked up V12.6253. If the Russians make a night attack they get full CPP and the Germans get 1/2 CPP that night. The following morning Russians get 1/2 CPP and the Germans get full CPP.

KGP has under P8.6233 case b) that dual attack chits mean both sides get cloaking, nobody is restricted by no move, and nobody gets scenario defender bonuses.

If I do this, I am leaning towards the KGP method with half CPP roll allowed to both sides. But I like the attacker loosing half his CPP like VotG or taking a penalty on the next morning CPP roll to dissuade ahistorical night attacks without eliminating them completely. I don't know how to meet this compromise.

If I give the US a chance for a night attack like VotG, the German's will have to take an attack chit every night out of self defense to avoid a catastrophic rupture of lines while stuck on no move. If I use KGP rules the US will most likely take attack chits at night to escape mortars/OBA, I certainly would, which will force the Germans to take attack chits also, and be completelyahistorical.

The simple solution is to say that night scenarios are ahistorical for the location. Honestly, I am leaning to this, and pumping up the Infiltration RG I was talking about earlier to represent the result of probing at night.
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