General Questions: Rules etc

[Keith Collins]

Here is a thread to ask general questions on rules, tactics, errata, etc

Started at Scott G's request.

[Keith Collins]

I have a question.

Can you fellas give me suggestions for good 3-player scenarios? For those meets where we have an odd number.

What I have so far...

TOT 45 The Dogs of War
JAVA 2 Unlikely Allies
SS-2 Strange Allies
FB-14 At the Narrow Passage
ASL 070 KP 167
ASL 155 Smith & Weston
AP 045 Retrained and Rearmed
AP 049 Reaping Rewards

Any other suggestions?

[Koz]

I gotta couple of big Hedgerow scenarios that need testing that could handle 3 people!

[Scott G]

OK -- Let me get started on questions. I was looking at Dreil Team. Having never played with a stream before -- I am puzzled by the fact that the stream for this scenario (per SSR) is flooded -- except for the two ends which are only deep. I assume they are only deep because the depressions are not as deep at the end and in actuality, the water level is the same as all the other stream hexes??? But what about is line of sight? If I am reading the rules correctly -- a flooded stream is at level 0 -- so any squad that wades in there will be CX and using hazardous movement -- but also will be at level 0 -- meaning there are dozens and dozens of ground level hexes that can trace LOS into all of those flooded stream hexes. However -- what level are the two end hexes (which are merely deep) considered to be at -- level 0????

So going a step further -- if one is in a flooded stream (or end hex) movement out of that hex to dry land is NOT a move to higher terrain? So moving into open ground would cost 1 and into woods would cost 2 from a flooded stream??????

[Keith Collins]

Hi Scott,

First, with the SSR, the flooded Stream hexes are impassable other than swimming, which makes you an unarmed counter, so in essence the level of the flooded hexes won't matter(who wants to be an unarmed counter?). Basically, the SSR makes the flooded hexes impassable.

But your questions are interesting from a logic perspective, but this is a design for effect thing and not a logical thing. Given the level of the flooded stream is impassable (in effect) it's level doesn't matter. The Deep Stream hexes I thing are designed to give the Brits a way to cross the stream other than the bridges.

By rule the Deep stream hexes will still allow crest status and crossing of the stream, and yes they are at a level lower (-1) than the flooded stream hexes.

So yes, if you wanted to you could try to pass a swimming TC to dive UP?!? from 22W10 to 22V9. But you'd be an unarmed unit so why do it (unless it was on your ASL bucket list)

Basically the designers wanted to create an impassable barrier with a few choke points.

If you need a real life example to help envision a possible construct, think of hex O5 having an industrial sized sewer culvert that flow into the stream. The stream flows both ways under each bridge is a flood control gate or water fall that makes the stream deep from that point on...a stretch I know but a possible explanation.

Did that help?

[Scott G]

Keith:

Not sure I completely agree. Agree the intent is to confine the crossing to the two bridges and maybe the two end points. 20.44 lets British squads enter the two end points by spending 4 MPs and becoming CX. The flooding SSR also means the water in the stream is at level 0. I still don't see how the two end points can be at level -1 -- even if those two hexes are only "deep". Don't the rest of the flooding references indicate that all water obstacles during flooding are at a higher level? I still contend that the end points are at level 0, but the water is only "deep" because the end points of the gulley are not eroded as deeply as the rest and therefore, the water there is only deep even though at the same level as the adjacent "flooded" hexes. That's what makes the most sense to me.

Now -- speaking of flooded water obstacles -- if the tank drives adjacent to any of those flooded hexes, does it need to chance a bog roll?

[Keith Collins]

I'm fine playing the deep hexes as lvl 0. I don't see the direct rule train that makes it so. But so of these eary SSR counted on the players using common sense and I agree lvl 0 makes the most sense.

My claim of no direct rule support rests on on the logic that once the hexes are declared "deep" they are no longer water obstacles thus not at a level higher.

That said lvl 0 makes logical sense.

Do you have a rule referance for the bog. My quick search missed it.

[Scott G]

I have never felt like I understood Bog -- but I couldn't find a reference for 'next to flooded terrain" and the scenario does not stipulate mud -- it just seemed like if the streams were flooded and the ground was wet, that might be a problem for vehicles driving along the flooded bank. But then, we are talking about the mighty Panther -- so absent any known rules reference, I guess the answer would be no Bog roll.

[Koz]

NRBH but I think if the speed is circled, (or is it the survival number?), then you have the bad bog modifier. As large at the Panther is I m pretty certain it will be under that penalty.

[Keith Collins]

You bog Adjacent to Marshes and during mud, but not during flooded terrain as far as I can find, that's why I asked for the rule reference, incase I missed it somewhere.

The Panther does have a vech note that involves stall. If it has a circled ID letter then it has high ground pressure and has a Bog modifier to the bad (a plus IIRC).

Definitely should play the "deep" stream hexes as lvl zero, makes the most common sense and likely is what the designers intended.